tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post8351832015331380261..comments2023-08-15T05:02:58.115-04:00Comments on Stirrup Queens and Sperm Palace Jesters: CD3 of the Planner ProtocolLollipop Goldsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01020874415819057995noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-6480396586842673282007-06-29T13:39:00.000-04:002007-06-29T13:39:00.000-04:00Speaking not as a mother, but as a woman who is co...Speaking not as a mother, but as a woman who is considering resolving without children (childfree after infertility): The lens of infertility can be rather distorting. There is a very high rate of depression among infertility patients, and even for those who are not clinically depressed, infertility can be such an isolating and difficult experience that I think there is a risk of its skewing our perceptions of our lives before, during, and later (after it has been resolved). This sadness has a tendency to wash out other sources of happiness in pre-parenting life. With such an obvious contrast, and with the cultural emphasis on joy in parenting, the majority of people will obviously say that they are happier now, couldn't imagine being childless, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-6714619743076968542007-06-29T13:15:00.000-04:002007-06-29T13:15:00.000-04:00If the children/(un)happiness thing is a broad gen...If the children/(un)happiness thing is a broad generalization, then the applicability to individual instances is negligable, if not irrelevant. <BR/><BR/>That said, I have seen some teen and adult children cause their parents TREMENDOUS unhappiness, and others cause tremendous joy, so the possibility for either certainly exists.E. Phantzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05812948199658356521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-61569588502362964942007-06-29T05:20:00.000-04:002007-06-29T05:20:00.000-04:00First, I hope you get into the pre-ovulation happy...First, I hope you get into the pre-ovulation happymode soon. That's my favourite part of the cycle, without question.<BR/><BR/>Second. I've heard that about children and happiness before. I think a year ago I would have bitten your head off for suggesting children wouldn't make me happier (actually, I recall my mum suggesting it and I think I did bite her head off). Nowadays, I still believe anything that puts an end to IVF will make me happier, and at this point I'm still hoping that "thing" is a child, I'm just not quite as convinced it *has* to be.<BR/><BR/>Children (I've heard) are hard work. There are ups and downs. I believe a parent's moments of happiness are genuine, but I think there's an extent to which parents have to work hard to convince themselves the bad stuff pays off because it's 2am and the "little miracle" won't shut the fuck up. Say anything enough times, you'll start to believe it. <BR/><BR/>On balance? Like anything, I think different people get different amounts of pleasure out of the job, to make up for their trouble. But I no longer hold any truck with the viewpoint that parenthood is unequivocally worthwhile, to the extent than everyone should be trying to achieve it in any way they can, otherwise their lives will be empty and their happiness incomplete.<BR/><BR/>In summary: I'm prepared to believe what Mr Gilbert says. But I'm still going to do another IVF cycle...<BR/><BR/>BeaBeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877513815828460269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-22223511594257318412007-06-28T23:27:00.000-04:002007-06-28T23:27:00.000-04:00Sorry about the tough CD 3. CD 1 was always my wo...Sorry about the tough CD 3. CD 1 was always my worst - or the day before, when I had spotting and so I knew I was out.<BR/><BR/>I'm absolutely happier now that Zoe has arrived. No question at all. I think it's interesting that people might remember that they were happy or sad, but not the extent of their emotions. I would buy that for most of the time, but there are specific moments when I remember clearly the burst of joy or the gut-wrenching sorrow.<BR/><BR/>Those bagels look awesome. I want to try to make them. Maybe this weekend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-53598524617612300402007-06-28T20:49:00.000-04:002007-06-28T20:49:00.000-04:00you know, i've thought about that alot. whether ha...you know, i've thought about that alot. whether having children will make me "happier." i know i want to do it, but i'm sure once i get there i'll wonder why i wanted it so much. maybe.Lea Beehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12244136507772057014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-61460128271316468142007-06-28T19:50:00.000-04:002007-06-28T19:50:00.000-04:00I am totally impressed that you made bagels.I am totally impressed that you made bagels.battynursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240029154165501340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-20887954982841625112007-06-28T18:12:00.000-04:002007-06-28T18:12:00.000-04:00Yum, I am not much of a baker, but I love to purch...Yum, I am not much of a baker, but I love to purchase and consume Asiago bagels at Panera and Brueggers. <BR/><BR/>Very interesting points regarding happiness. I don't really care for the ranking of "happiness factors," I would assume that contentment is more holistic, but it is fun to think about. FYI, my religion is currently pretty far down the list considering our pursuit of fertility treatments is immoral. <BR/><BR/>I read a interesting Business Week article about the world’s happiest countries (not sure how to provide the link). Denmark, Switzerland, Finland, Norway, Austria, and Iceland were all in the top 10. I don't think it is a coincidence that they almost all have comprehensive health care (which I assume covers IUI/IVF, etc.).Frank N. Beanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05900317436734977805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-59624876316544238922007-06-28T17:03:00.000-04:002007-06-28T17:03:00.000-04:00Umm, bagels. I'll have to try your recipe, becaus...Umm, bagels. I'll have to try your recipe, because I feel stupid buying them all the time.<BR/><BR/>I finally posted a picture of the cake that DD and I had on Monday--it's on my first post right now. It was wonderful and delicious! We explained it to her family as being for her 40th birthday because they didn't know that we met online through our blogs (except for Mr. DD, who knew the truth). That wouldn't have gone over well.<BR/><BR/>I am happier as a parent than I was during infertility, and I have no doubt that I'm happier as a parent after infertility than I would have been leading a child-free life after infertility. I actually think I'm happier as a parent after infertility than I would have been if I weren't IF. I think I appreciate it a little more than I might have otherwise, and I was a little more determined to do certain things (like feed P 100% breastmilk for the first 6 months, even though returning to work at 3 months meant I was pumping 5-6 times a day to get what he needed for daycare). I think J and I could have been happy childfree, but I don't know that we'd have been this happy. It gives us something additional around which to build such happy memories. Even the tough times as parents help us strengthen our marriage and solidarity to each other as a couple.Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04077459860855798660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-42924182594672418472007-06-28T16:56:00.000-04:002007-06-28T16:56:00.000-04:00ha ha ha. Loved your description of third day dow...ha ha ha. Loved your description of third day downfalls and dieting. Sounds alot like my many unsuccessful attempts. <BR/><BR/>Oh, and I'm very impressed that you make your own bagels!Mindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137863271039042064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-66934834629459580072007-06-28T16:50:00.000-04:002007-06-28T16:50:00.000-04:00You make your own bagels?? I am impressed! I may...You make your own bagels?? I am impressed! I may just have to give that a try. After I finish South Beach! LOL (Of course that would mean I'd have to start South Beach first, well . . . never mind! Now I'm hungry.<BR/><BR/>***<BR/>I think the mistake people make is needing the child(ren) to bring the happiness, if you are inherently happy with your life then kids will enhance that happiness. When people are hoping for kids to bring happiness (ie they had a baby to "save" their marriage) that rarely, if not never, works. Kids are a lot of work and require quite a bit of selflessness (from what I hear, what do I know, really) so expecting them to "make" us happy will probably disapoint. Hoping to share your happiness with a child now that may actually be realistic. *may* <BR/><BR/>Do you suppose that's what he means?beaglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627886826215379414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-11889330958196330242007-06-28T15:46:00.000-04:002007-06-28T15:46:00.000-04:00My views on children and happiness: Although you'...My views on children and happiness: Although you'll probably be happy with and about your children, they put pressure on every other part of your life: your relationship, your job, your free time, your finances. So, it really depends on how you look at things. In particular, with a few shining exceptions in just about every couple I've known, the husband-wife relationship took a huge turn for the worse post-kids. <BR/><BR/>About happiness: You may not be able to predict what will make you happy, but I think you can predict with a fair degree of certainity what will make you unhappy. Like, uh, just for example: your husband leaving you for a younger woman, your baby dying shortly after birth. You get the picture. <BR/><BR/>On predicting what will make you happy: Well, you know the old saying: When G-d wants to punish us, He answers our prayers.niobehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10685766216611639434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-70963621888485372662007-06-28T15:33:00.000-04:002007-06-28T15:33:00.000-04:00I always tended to hope i could create happiness. ...I always tended to hope i could create happiness. It gets lonely and depressing on the IF road. I always Try to find a happy/medium. His theory interests meAwkwardMomentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11854477296635420810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-85479527757779022482007-06-28T15:22:00.000-04:002007-06-28T15:22:00.000-04:00Yum, yum, yum. Does FedEx ship perishables???To an...Yum, yum, yum. Does FedEx ship perishables???<BR/><BR/>To answer your question about being happier... Overall, I think I am happier in my life as a mom. Not that I wasn't happy before then, but I never thought I could feel so much love, passion, compassion because of one little set of eyes that look up at me. At the end of the day, no matter how bad it was, that smile that shows only for me when I come home from work melts my heart every time. And, I am forever grateful.<BR/><BR/>Sure, things are a little harder, like Rachel said, with free-time and husband time. And, like Starfish said, there are areas of my life that are not as happy as they were - like my job (I would MUCH rather be at home!). But, these "set backs" are nothing compared to the joy I have with my son.<BR/><BR/>My joy was, of course, squashed for a while with my back-to-back miscarriages - but, I am finally back to being happy again. During the time of my miscarriages, it wasn't that I wasn't happy being a mom - Chris is the only thing that was my beacon of light to come out of the mourning and upset - it was I was pissed off, frustrated and upset with myself and my body. And, there were times that Chris' smile was a strong reminder of what was taken from me too soon. But, once I was able to finally mourn and be angry and sad the RIGHT way and get it out, things are finally getting better.<BR/><BR/>Every day is an adventure raising a child - and, some days are harder (like, when he refuses to use the potty) while some days are easier. But, when you watch him sleeping at night, it never stops amazing me that my body allowed me to at least have THIS child - and that makes me happy.Tina / Anxious Changerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05455878557333244801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-78403030236630946202007-06-28T14:38:00.000-04:002007-06-28T14:38:00.000-04:00It is a harder happiness, because it is tied up in...It is a harder happiness, because it is tied up in major life changes (no longer working, struggling with loss of adult identity and so on) but, yes, I am without a doubt happier with children. No joy in my life has ever equalled them. Of course, I am not sure anything else has ever driven to the brink quite as much as the early sleeplessness / PPD did. And nothing else has ever been, or will ever be, as terrifying as the possibility of losing them. So, yes, it is a hard happiness. It isn't "Oh, look, lollipops. I like lollipops, they make me happy." It is more of a deep, aching joy. They enrich my life. Maybe he meant the lollipop kind of easy happiness.<BR/><BR/>How can you bake in this heat? Or is DC not as hot as New England? I love homemade bagels.Staciehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505622963819102492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-16976923101730494142007-06-28T14:10:00.000-04:002007-06-28T14:10:00.000-04:00My daughter has made me very happy, but I always k...My daughter has made me very happy, but I always knew that she would. She was definitely worth all the shots, blood draws, and ultrasounds. Sometimes, I wonder if I would have appreciated her as much if I hadn't gone through all of that grief.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-39467698592737458882007-06-28T13:53:00.000-04:002007-06-28T13:53:00.000-04:00Ugh, the link didn't come through right. Here it i...Ugh, the link didn't come through right. Here it is <A HREF="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1202940,00.html" REL="nofollow">Does Fatherhood Make You Happy</A><BR/><BR/>And about the bagels... I'm with Rachel. I would have no idea where to get vital wheat gluten and malt barley syrup (or whatever it was). I didn't even know they existed... (Then again, I do know where the local bagel place is ;-))Rachel Inbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06605780418673759318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-869796884527375972007-06-28T13:51:00.000-04:002007-06-28T13:51:00.000-04:00First of all, I loved Daniel Gilbert's article abo...First of all, I loved Daniel Gilbert's article about whether fatherhood makes you happy (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1202940,00.html) and I just ordered the book Stumbling on Happiness last week. <BR/><BR/>I am a mom both to older children (13-1/2, 11, 11) and to small children (2, 1). Does having them make me happier? I can't say this is the easiest time of my life. My free time is very limited, my time with my husband is usually when we're both tired and I really, really hate parent-teacher meetings. On the other hand, the alternative would be to continue yearning to have children, something that would definitely have made me less happy than I am today. <BR/><BR/>There is a lot of happiness during these years, but I think that the true happiness is when the children are a little older and we develop relationships with them that are based on who they really are, as people (of course remaining parents when they need it). I think my parents are happier now that their children have families of their own, but I don't think that anything makes them happier than meeting up with us, spending time with the grandchildren, etc. Basically, I think it's a little more complicated than yes/no...<BR/><BR/>But one absolute yes. I did become much happier when I finally became a mom after 4-1/2 years.Rachel Inbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06605780418673759318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-60454120849211788422007-06-28T13:50:00.000-04:002007-06-28T13:50:00.000-04:00First, your general use of the word fuck lately cr...First, your general use of the word fuck lately cracks me up - it's good not to be the only one out here cursing up a storm! But the children quote, I don't know what to do with that. Since we started struggling I've been wondering if finally getting a kid won't be all I think it'll be, if I'll be disappointed? I don't think they'll solve all my problems and buy me eternal happiness, but I do worry a little when I hang soooooo much on having them. <BR/><BR/>I do however think that no matter how miserable they might make me some days, the sound of them laughing, and knowing I was the one who made them laugh - that might be better than anything EVER.Nataliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519495904693373900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-69536777602542953532007-06-28T13:19:00.000-04:002007-06-28T13:19:00.000-04:00In my opinion it comes down to: Everything has it'...In my opinion it comes down to: Everything has it's price. Having children will not make me happier, but not having them makes me sad. There are so many advantages of being single/living childfree BUT there are also many advantages to having children. Happiness should come from inside of you, not from or because of what you have or don't have. Right now though I'd exchange the advantages of being single in the blink of an eye for the advantages of being a parent!KarenOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430826693486690223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-71427585965693798662007-06-28T13:03:00.000-04:002007-06-28T13:03:00.000-04:00Let me preface this by saying that I don't have ch...Let me preface this by saying that I don't have children YET, but here are my thought on children and happiness. If you are unhappy and think that having children will make you happy, you will not be happy. If you are a generally happy person and think that having children will add to your happiness you will be happier. I thik that happiness has to do more with how you thikn of the world. I am sad that I don't have children and that I have lost so many, but I still am happy with so many things in my life. Kind of like an ice cream sundae... I'm missing the cherry that will complete it, but it's pretty darn good by itself too. (Or at least that's what I have to tell myself so I won't become a bitter old woman.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-52249321160801390532007-06-28T12:50:00.000-04:002007-06-28T12:50:00.000-04:00I'm absolutely happier. More than I could have pr...I'm absolutely happier. More than I could have predicted, actually. And I already know that I'll try the process again, whatever hell may be in store.<BR/><BR/>The author's thoughts dropped my jaw to the floor. I think I'll pick it up and chew on some bagels.mandolynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15570528484019572953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-25525639101483697642007-06-28T12:29:00.000-04:002007-06-28T12:29:00.000-04:00I don't know if kids will make me "happier". I wo...I don't know if kids will make me "happier". I would like to think that no matter what, I will be happy. After all of this, though, I think that I will certainly appreciate all of the experiences of motherhood more than I would have.Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17149755334990646369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-59422801242597419172007-06-28T12:17:00.000-04:002007-06-28T12:17:00.000-04:00Mel - thanks for this recipe - I've been looking f...Mel - thanks for this recipe - I've been looking for a *chewy* recipe for a loooong time. As they don't get eaten very much in Aust. it's really hard to track any down commercially, and the recipes I've tried have been too much like regular bread shaped in a circle.<BR/><BR/>Thanks!Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10517389518381988795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-73245523977382920452007-06-28T12:01:00.000-04:002007-06-28T12:01:00.000-04:00I am happier now that I am a parent after infertil...I am happier now that I am a parent after infertility (through adoption) as I predicted. However, I may be a tad bit unhappier in other aspects of my life, like say my job, since I am now the breadwinner and the welfare of my new child is pretty much dependent on ME. So maybe it's all just a big shifting - different shades of happy depending on the different circumstances we encounter as we go through life.Yeah Sohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989848317356232631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-52545630489847702722007-06-28T11:31:00.000-04:002007-06-28T11:31:00.000-04:00I have just one question: do you sleep? You seem t...I have just one question: do you sleep? You seem to always be doing so much. I would think maintaining this blog would take up a large chunk of your time. You have me wanting to make bagels, now.<BR/><BR/>I skimmed through Gilbert's book, but it was denser and more science-y than I expected, or maybe I was just feeling lazy that day. I was hoping for a Freakonomics or Blink type of breakdown of the subject. Interesting ideas, though. I was reading another blog post yesterday about how the narratives we construct for ourselves about the past influence our perceptions of our happiness or unhappiness. I believe it. I've lately been realizing that my narrative of IF is this: even during the nice moments during the TTC months (e.g., vacations, holidays, etc), there was this tinge of sadness between me and my husband. Everything was beautifully bittersweet because of our struggle. And in my memories of vacations or holidays, I'm always starting my period. I know this couldn't have been true at the time, but I think it does make what we're experiencing now (pregnancy) seem like a fairy tale ending. We'll see if that holds up when we're actually parents.Furrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08617566957749784387noreply@blogger.com