tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post116890785899428749..comments2023-08-15T05:02:58.115-04:00Comments on Stirrup Queens and Sperm Palace Jesters: Blech to William SaletanLollipop Goldsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01020874415819057995noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169590670809008642007-01-23T17:17:00.001-05:002007-01-23T17:17:00.001-05:00I've been writing about my experiences donating my...I've been writing about my experiences donating my 3 spare embryos. It cost me $18,000 to make all 6 but I'm not accepting any $ for my gift.<BR/><BR/>If donation is OK why not reimburse sperm donors, egg donors and the clinic for the cost of making embryos? But even tho I'm donating I disagree w/embryo donation in general. Here's why http://embryodonation.blogspot.com/2006/12/why-im-against-embryo-donation.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169590637913230072007-01-23T17:17:00.000-05:002007-01-23T17:17:00.000-05:00I've been writing about my experiences donating my...I've been writing about my experiences donating my 3 spare embryos. It cost me $18,000 to make all 6 but I'm not accepting any $ for my gift.<BR/><BR/>If donation is OK why not reimburse sperm donors, egg donors and the clinic for the cost of making embryos? But even tho I'm donating I disagree w/embryo donation in general. Here's why http://embryodonation.blogspot.com/2006/12/why-im-against-embryo-donation.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169060733961279432007-01-17T14:05:00.000-05:002007-01-17T14:05:00.000-05:00I read a blurb about Ryan's services in the newspa...I read a blurb about Ryan's services in the newspaper two weeks ago and thought it sounded like a fabulous idea. I think she is brilliant. An over 40 single woman I know is just now trying to decide if she will use donor eggs. She is already trying to get pg with donor sperm. In addition to mourning the loss of a biological connection to herself, she is also struggling with the cost aspect -- what if she spends all the money on an egg donor and doesn't get many viable embryos? Ryan's service seemed tailor made for her -- she wouldn't pay if there were no embryos, and she'd presumably get results much faster than if she chose to persue adoption of someone else's embryos or more traditional adoption. Win-win in my book.<BR/><BR/>I really don't think it sounds all that different from what is already done with egg and sperm donors. In fact, it seems as if it improves upon that process by taking some of the risk out of the process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169053130890134272007-01-17T11:58:00.000-05:002007-01-17T11:58:00.000-05:00I commented on Bea's post today/yesterday on this....I commented on Bea's post today/yesterday on this. <BR/><BR/>Personally, profiting off someone's infertility makes me go "ick" too. But as long as there's a need, there will be a market for it. That's the basis of all economy. And clearly there's a need for Ryan's services.<BR/><BR/>It just makes me depressed to see how much societal ignorance there is regarding infertility and ART. <BR/><BR/>So yes. Blech to William Saletan. He doesn't get it. And he's pandering to the other people who don't get it either. The ones who think that couples who use Ryan's services are doing it strictly to have a blue eyed, blonde haired baby boy.<BR/><BR/>Grrr.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169044844965150962007-01-17T09:40:00.000-05:002007-01-17T09:40:00.000-05:00I agree...only people who have endured the heart b...I agree...only people who have endured the heart break, desperation, disappointment, physical and emotional pain can comment at all on ART.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169040953912731722007-01-17T08:35:00.000-05:002007-01-17T08:35:00.000-05:00Having just finished a donor egg cycle this articl...Having just finished a donor egg cycle this article hit close to home. Understanding and coming to terms with the fact that I had to give up the biological connection if I wanted children was one of the hardest things I've done. I can't imagine anyone choosing that if they didn't have to. Also I wanted a blond haired blue eyed donor because I am blond haired and blue eyed. Even though I was giving up the biological aspect I still wanted my children to look like me in some way (another thing that people who have biological children take for granted.) It is so hard to know you will never see your mother's eyes or your father's chin in your child. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, my real point is even though they are screeening and creating these "perfect" embryos, you never know really what you are getting. We used a well screened egg donor, got pg and miscarried soon after. We now just discovered that the donor has a rare genetic disorder that is fatal to all male babies and all females will be carriers. It was reccomended that we discard all of our frozen embryos. We thought we knew what we were getting into using a donr, but really there are no guarantees no matter how much you pay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169022428897776772007-01-17T03:27:00.000-05:002007-01-17T03:27:00.000-05:00I'm going to make this my last comment, I promise....I'm going to make this my last comment, I promise. There is much more to say about this. But I disagree with you about the role ethicists should take in this. Journalists are for reporting, ethicists need to take a more proactive role. Society on it's own has a poor general track record. Salem. Auschwitz.<BR/><BR/>BeaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169019663632394052007-01-17T02:41:00.000-05:002007-01-17T02:41:00.000-05:00But I may have missed the important questions. I'...But I may have missed the important questions. I'm just angry with the media lately.<BR/><BR/>1. There are pros as well as cons with for-profit medicine.<BR/><BR/>2. We never really know what we're doing til it's done. It is worth pausing to check for blatant errors, though.<BR/><BR/>3. The concern is that the consequences will not be worth it. The means will not turn out to justify the ends - at least not on balance, taking everyone's interests into account. Again, valid concern, just a little too much hysteria going on and not enough rational looking at the big picture.<BR/><BR/>For example - the clinic wants blue-eyed blond-haired donors because business is business. But why is it that the the demand for donors doesn't accurately reflect the broader racial mix of society? I'm pretty sure the answers to this question lie *outside* the ART industry.<BR/><BR/>BeaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169009728240809352007-01-16T23:55:00.000-05:002007-01-16T23:55:00.000-05:00i declare only people who have gone through IF are...i declare only people who have gone through IF are allowed right the rules/books/articles about it - then this sort of madness from non ivloved parties can stop being what is right and start beign just another point of view. <BR/><BR/>persoanlly it hinkt hey should odo a tv show like 'crash test mummy' for people who dont get IF and the strains it put people under - they should be hypnotised and set loose... then we'd see how tunes change after the 30th night in a row wondering if drug a is better than drug b or if that dodgy curry is to blame for your low temps post DTD...<BR/><BR/>I knbow more non medical people in the IF field who know more about the drugs and prodecures than anything - they research and research - no one goes into art blindly - we all knwo the odds,t he risk sna dhte miracles - we all want a slice of the joy that IS possible... <BR/><BR/>now all we need is society to back off and let us breatht oo would be nice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169006084867249042007-01-16T22:54:00.000-05:002007-01-16T22:54:00.000-05:00As far as Saletan's piece goes-give me a break! Pe...As far as Saletan's piece goes-give me a break! People have been selecting mates for characteristics they would like to propogate probably since we evolved all those years ago. The fact that Ms. Ryan made a statement like: "Who wants an ugly, stupid kid? I mean, come on, if you chose yourself" shows what kind of person she is. But, can you imagine if Ms. Ryan was doing her business for several years and it was determined she was selling embryos made from eggs and sperm from whoever she could pay the least for this service? And while the embryos are created from individuals who are attractive and intelligent, that can go only so far in determining what that blast will turn out to be as a baby, child or adult. <BR/>Saletan's financial figures assume perfect fertilization and all the best of every other step in ART. I think it this piece has stretched the reality of ART to some fantasyland of perfect retrieval, fertilization, transfer, implantation, pregnancy, blahdy-blah-blah. Which doesn't exist and frankly I don't think that her figures take into account what Ms. Ryan may have to pay an embryologist if/when this business really takes off.<BR/>I am actually more alarmed by the article in the side bar tagged "Can my embryos get freezer burn?" next to a picture of what must be a fetbryo around 2 months of gestational age. Then the "explainer" goes on to tell us how embryos are stored in liquid nitrogen. Why the F*&^ can't they show an 8 cell blast since that is what is actually getting frozen (under the best of circumstances). It enrages me the way that ART is misrepresented and sensationalized in the popular press.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1169001411407479662007-01-16T21:36:00.000-05:002007-01-16T21:36:00.000-05:00I find that I have this weird "ick" reaction to se...I find that I have this weird "ick" reaction to selling embryos (which is, honestly, what is going on) that I don't have when I think about selling eggs or sperm. I don't know why that is. I have to think about how I feel about this one and why I have an irrational "ick" response.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1168999170391886002007-01-16T20:59:00.000-05:002007-01-16T20:59:00.000-05:00Obviously, mental illnesses are legitimate medical...Obviously, mental illnesses are legitimate medical conditions also, That was an ill-thought-out reference to a specific comment I heard recently.<BR/><BR/>It was suggested that since infertility causes depression in many couples, the legitimate treatment should not be ART but... therapy. AD's if necessary.<BR/><BR/>I hope this person is also prepared to start a "don't use chemo - just make patients ok with death!" campaign for cancer patients.<BR/><BR/>I apologise for implying mental illnesses aren't real. Some of my best friends etc.<BR/><BR/>BeaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1168998857157592752007-01-16T20:54:00.000-05:002007-01-16T20:54:00.000-05:00There seems to be a lot of it in the media lately,...There seems to be a lot of it in the media lately, between FS's under investigation in the UK and embryo banks. All sensationalised in the worst possible way. <BR/><BR/>It's all very well to want to discuss eugenics when it comes to ART, but to warble hysterically as if people are going to stop having babies through sex because IVF is, you know, so much more fun just kind of makes me tune out. Which is shame because there is a discussion to be had.<BR/><BR/>If I could make sure the people involved in these discussion were all starting out with the premise that infertility is, in fact, a legitimate medical condition worthy of treatment and not some form of mental illness or lifestyle choice, maybe we could get somewhere.<BR/><BR/>BeaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com