tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post116035536952685864..comments2023-08-15T05:02:58.115-04:00Comments on Stirrup Queens and Sperm Palace Jesters: IVIg and the Reproductive Immunology Controversy (Somewhat?) ExplainedLollipop Goldsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01020874415819057995noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160599817125829822006-10-11T16:50:00.000-04:002006-10-11T16:50:00.000-04:00It's a very interesting debate. And I definitely ...It's a very interesting debate. And I definitely agree that it's everyones personal decision. And it's definitely not for everyone. But there are people that are taking it so far to the extreme that it's scary. Downright frightening. From doctors to patients. There are some great doctors out there that are being completely responsible when it comes to treating someone for immunology, but it seems to me like, I'm finding more, who are just out to make a quick buck at the expense of someone's personal tragedy and that just pisses me off. <BR/><BR/>That said, there's a lot of regular doctors out there that are like that too. <BR/><BR/>I think you pegged it when it comes to research on infertility. It's by and large an elective practice. It's a huge money maker for doctors in this line of practice. If they know something works with their success rates, they're not going to want to take time to try something new that might not work to the advantage of their stats. It's sad that it's this way, but it is. The only way this would probably change is if it was more regulated by the government. Why would they spend money on research when it could be better spent on a new Mercedes? <BR/><BR/>Me? Bitter? :oPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160436764684383672006-10-09T19:32:00.000-04:002006-10-09T19:32:00.000-04:00I knew you chickies would know the answer about of...I knew you chickies would know the answer about off-label use. So now the question is--is it just my perception, or does there seem to be more people up-in-arms and rejecting the new use when it applies to female reproductive health? Where is the support for additional studies? Is it that infertility is not "life-threatening" (note my quotes) and therefore not worth the time and money of pharmacutical companies?Lollipop Goldsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01020874415819057995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160434925698485792006-10-09T19:02:00.000-04:002006-10-09T19:02:00.000-04:00Oh, and I'd like to hear more about immunology, to...Oh, and I'd like to hear more about immunology, too - when you get the time.<BR/><BR/>BeaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160434814064035092006-10-09T19:00:00.000-04:002006-10-09T19:00:00.000-04:00One word - malpractice.Like squarepeg said.If you ...One word - malpractice.<BR/><BR/>Like squarepeg said.<BR/><BR/>If you use the drug for it's labelled purposes, and you run into complications, you have the backing of an entire pharma co. and all its lawyers, scientists, money, etc etc. Your complication may be well-documented, and just one of those unfortunate things for the patient. If it's a new complication, the drug itself comes under scrutiny. Either way, you have a big, powerful friend on your side.<BR/><BR/>When you use a drug off-label, you stake your entire career on that script. This may sound dramatic, but if something goes wrong, that's what's at stake.<BR/><BR/>A lot of drugs are widely used "off-label" so if you get caught you can turn around and say, "But all the other kids are doing it..." and the courts will make allowances in light of the fact that this is "accepted practice".<BR/><BR/>If the area is controversial (ie not "accepted practice"), you are using a drug off-label, and something goes wrong... well. <BR/><BR/>And keep in mind this is a career that takes a lot to build - time, money, effort. Not something you can just toss aside lightly and start anew.<BR/><BR/>Using a drug off-label and prescribing treatments that are controversial is either the height of bravery or incredibly gung-ho, depending on whether it worked for you or not.<BR/><BR/>BeaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160432706722177412006-10-09T18:25:00.000-04:002006-10-09T18:25:00.000-04:00I don't quite understand why immunology treatments...I don't quite understand why immunology treatments are so controversial. Are they super high risk? Pardon my ignorance.Murrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01573589642469517860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160428628635938002006-10-09T17:17:00.000-04:002006-10-09T17:17:00.000-04:00It is an interesting question. Another commonplac...It is an interesting question. Another commonplace example of a fertility drug that didn't start out as one is Femara. While REs still prescribe it, the manufacturer's have disavowed it's use in ovulation induction. My RE won't prescribe it - not becuase he doesn't think it's safe and effective - but becuase he is afraid of getting himself and the clinic thrown to the wolves if a negative result comes from use of an "off label" treatment regimen. Unfortunately, for an off label treatment to become "on" label so to speak, the drug's manufacturer would have to shell out for new clinical trials, starting at a fairly early phase (2? I think?). This is very costly, and the number of patients who could end up being future customers for the new use usually makes it not worth their while.squarepeghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05413935206519813828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160427174095473012006-10-09T16:52:00.000-04:002006-10-09T16:52:00.000-04:00Statia--A good point about the fact that one treat...Statia--<BR/><BR/>A good point about the fact that one treatment does not fit all and that what might be worth the risk/worth the pain/worth the cost to one person isn't right for another. <BR/><BR/>But whether or not one agrees with IVIg (because it is controversial, and who knows what we'll find out about ANY of these drugs in the long run. Truly, I may have just caused numerous problems for my children just by doing what are commonplace fertility drugs), the larger point is that once you get down to it, there is no fertility treatment that is 100% effective. Things that work for one person for whatever reason don't work for another who has the exact same problem. And I question rejecting anything (rejecting it in the grander medical community sense of the word, not a personal rejection of the treatment) that has had an effect on a problem. I think there's a lot that can be gained by off-label treatments that are done cautiously.<BR/><BR/>I like that there are numerous paths out there, with options open if one wishes to try. Truly no offense is meant in this response--I just think it makes an interesting debate.Lollipop Goldsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01020874415819057995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160426440489344662006-10-09T16:40:00.000-04:002006-10-09T16:40:00.000-04:00There are some women who find the thought of IVIg ...There are some women who find the thought of IVIg and other immunology treatments very proactive, but then it doesn't stop at just IVIg, etc. <BR/><BR/>I was told that I needed IVIg. I did my research and found that it wasn't for me. I didn't believe in it as it's not proven and there's too much controversy and with it it being unproven, I didn't want to dump medication in my body that has a risk of cancer. I ended up firing my doctor shortly after our first failed cycle, because of the fact that he chastised me for not taking his advice on doing IVIg. Both my primary care and my OB had my back and said that I absolutely made the right decision. <BR/><BR/>I went through an FET with a different doctor that felt that all of these immunology treatments was over the top and that he just didn't feel as if I needed them. He wasn't rude about the other doctors doing these protocols, he just didn't feel that it added to success rates. I got pregnant with him and am now 18 weeks. No IVIg, no heparin, no other immunology treatments. <BR/><BR/>Bottom line is this. Women have to do what's right for them, but I just give a word of caution. I'm not one to shun away from modern medicine by any means, but all of these medications aren't totally known what the long term side effects are. Just something to think about. Not only that, but it gives more hokey doctors a way to make a quick buck off of women suffering. It makes the doctors that are legitimately trying to fix these issues look bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1160421322896801422006-10-09T15:15:00.000-04:002006-10-09T15:15:00.000-04:00Very interesting post. I'd love to hear more abou...Very interesting post. I'd love to hear more about IVIg from ladies who have gone through it.<BR/><BR/>Interestingly, I think Lupron is used "off-label" in IVF- it is not the official use for the drug either...Hopeful Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339776324264791028noreply@blogger.com