tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post1013221555767116435..comments2023-08-15T05:02:58.115-04:00Comments on Stirrup Queens and Sperm Palace Jesters: Empathy (Children Mentioned)Lollipop Goldsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01020874415819057995noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-83197737011591286102007-12-05T10:39:00.000-05:002007-12-05T10:39:00.000-05:00This amazing post and the comments that it has gen...This amazing post and the comments that it has generated should in themselves serve as testimony to the fact that the IF blogosphere is not just about 'baby-desperate moms' sharing every intimate detail of their attempts to conceive (as the Globe & Mail article so trivially suggested). Thank you Mel, both for this particular post and for all your attempts to foster a sense of community amongst those struggling to deal with infertility. <BR/><BR/>My mother died of breast cancer when I was nineteen years old. Almost exactly fifteen years to the day later, I lost a baby (June is not a good month for me). Infertility and pregnancy loss have plunged me back into similar depths of grief, guilt and anger as I experienced after the death of my mother. In reponse to Sandy's comment that, unlike cancer, infertility is not a life-threatening condition, I just wanted to say that both leave deep and irrevocable scars on those that survive them. Maternal bereavement and now infertility have robbed me of parts of my identity - as a woman, as a daughter and as a mother.Ms Heathenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404067891155971103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-61882003691620236952007-12-04T12:31:00.000-05:002007-12-04T12:31:00.000-05:00Sandy - why so mean? You must be really angry - w...Sandy - why so mean? You must be really angry - why so angry? I can only surmise that cancer is somewhere in your own immediate experience, and you feel like a comparison to infertility trivializes your grief/loss/suffering, because you see infertility as a comparitively trivial problem (that can be cured by herbs! Um... no.). I invite you to explore the depths of grief, loss, and suffering that come with infertility. Not to engage in the dreaded Pain Olympics, but to get a different and hopefully more empathetic perspective since that is, after all, what you are also asking for.E. Phantzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05812948199658356521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-57552151756526873532007-12-03T14:27:00.000-05:002007-12-03T14:27:00.000-05:00Well said! I just emailed this post to my friends...Well said! I just emailed this post to my friends and family.<BR/><BR/>A recent study found that cancer was the most feared disease. No one believes infertility will strike them. Perhaps the empathy for cancer comes from the feeling that "it could happen to me" and therefor more thought/feeling goes into it. Infertility can be dismissed as "somebody else's problem"Kamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01215000341567119958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-80225613343886135132007-12-03T11:56:00.000-05:002007-12-03T11:56:00.000-05:00Bravo!!! Brilliant post!!! My dear aunt has canc...Bravo!!! Brilliant post!!! My dear aunt has cancer. She was diagnosed with her third tumor when I miscarried my first and only baby. She was more concerned about me than her own mortality. Her opinion is that at 65, she has lead a very full life. She was married twice, has three grown children, two step-children and 10 wonderful grandchildren. She may even be around long enough to be a great grandmother. If she dies tomorrow, she will rest in peace with all of her accomplishments. I, however, am stuck in limbo pursuing my dream of becoming a mother. And, I wouldn't wish either disease on my worst enemy!!!Working Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03953758305075186128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-86672707345000765752007-12-02T19:34:00.000-05:002007-12-02T19:34:00.000-05:00Sandy,I suffer from a constantly life-threatening ...Sandy,<BR/><BR/>I suffer from a constantly life-threatening disease (not cancer) and infertility. There are a lot of similarities. The research bears it out.<BR/><BR/>I have been better prepared for the type of statement you make than most because the disease I have is common in its non-lifethreatening form, and, therefore, people - even physicians - assume they know all about it.<BR/><BR/>They don't.<BR/><BR/>It is not sanctimonious to want to be taken seriously about a real disease.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and not having borne a child is a threat to one's health since if you have not borne a child by the time you are 25 you are much more likely to contract both breast and uterine cancers. <BR/><BR/>Endometriosis, when left untreated, can lead to cancer.<BR/><BR/>Fibroids can be precursors to cancerous uterine growths.<BR/><BR/>PCOS is often related to diabetes which most often kills from congestive heart failure.<BR/><BR/>I can go on and on with real facts about infertility and other diseases because I bother to. Most people don't bother to let facts interfere with opinion.<BR/><BR/>Mel tries to create a safe haven for those who need real support in a time that study after study has shown is not provided by those in their real lives.<BR/><BR/>Granted, I already have a tight group of friends for whom infertility is old hat - but I don't tend to willingly hang out with those who refuse to acknowledge they don't know what they don't know.<BR/><BR/>We also all know what is not open for discussion with others. Do we fail at times? Yes, but we have a history.<BR/><BR/>I am curious why you felt it so important to dismiss something that scientific research has borne out repeatedly? Namely, that depression rates and stress among infertile couples are equivalent to those suffered from those dealing with cancer. (And I have known plenty who have both lived and died from that disease.)<BR/><BR/>Pax,<BR/><BR/>MLOMLOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01779450983499873776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-47120582841137255152007-12-02T18:23:00.000-05:002007-12-02T18:23:00.000-05:00I don't find it surprising that almost all of your...I don't find it surprising that almost all of your comments on this post are positive. Most of your readers are also infertiles. I am not so I guess I'm here to tell you that your cycle AND your thoughts are way off. DO NOT compare a life threatening condition to one that is not. There is no comparison. Herbs do not cure cancer so your analogy falls apart. As far as adoption is concerned, yes, it is insensitive to just assume that is as easy as waving a magic wand and then a child magically appears, but infertility treatment is hell too and equally expensive and less guaranteed. Fertile people do not adopt because it is far easier and cheaper to bear their own rather than adopt but for an infertile who faces an uphill battle either way, it is worth asking why the genetic link IS so important. What does that say about us as a society? As for them motherhood being some kind of job, when pointing out all of the deficiencies in that analogy (no pay, pension, or vacations for starters) is not even worth my time. I like reading your blog for many reasons but when you sink into motherhood and infertility sanctimony, elevating your pet causes above everything and anything else in this world (and again, your analogy to cancer is patently absurb for so many reasons that are obvious to every fertile person in the world that I don't feel the need to say more) you really go off the rails.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-5931396771640268682007-12-02T10:10:00.000-05:002007-12-02T10:10:00.000-05:00Yeah, my own dad asked me if I should just accept ...Yeah, my own dad asked me if I should just accept God's plan. I said God wanted him to die of heart disease and he should work on accepting that. Luckily, he laughed.queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00539184323507342634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-4147409310159083872007-12-01T01:29:00.000-05:002007-12-01T01:29:00.000-05:00You know how you read comments or posts online and...You know how you read comments or posts online and you automatically give people a mental "character" complete with imagined body, age, personality, interests, and voice? Well, when I read those comments I realised I automatically give those types of commenters the character of an angsty, insufferable, know-it-all teenager in serious need of a proper life crisis to grow them up.<BR/><BR/>Somehow I couldn't feel angry, hurt or frustrated about it anymore - just resigned. Or it could be the lovely hormones.<BR/><BR/>BeaBeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877513815828460269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-12895249829290379212007-12-01T00:55:00.000-05:002007-12-01T00:55:00.000-05:00Feel free to pass them on to me as to why people c...Feel free to pass them on to me as to why people can't "just adopt". It can be equally devastating. And the next person who tells me what a wonderful person I am for doing "that" is going to get an earful.Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04077459860855798660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-64013224027729131812007-11-30T17:21:00.000-05:002007-11-30T17:21:00.000-05:00Amazing as usual!Amazing as usual!Sunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14570018200281339937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-43465449495283699922007-11-30T15:38:00.000-05:002007-11-30T15:38:00.000-05:00AMEN!!I feel terrible for Achatz - no one should e...AMEN!!<BR/><BR/>I feel terrible for Achatz - no one should ever have to battle cancer. Or lose their life's passion because of it.<BR/><BR/>But, ANYONE whose desire it is to be a parent should never have to battle IF and/or lose their life's passion either.<BR/><BR/>And, the fact that anyone can so nonchalantly have us who deal with IF say "just adopt" is a coward, ignorant and unfeeling. There are sooooo many facets to adoption - and is not something to decide to move forward with lightly.<BR/><BR/>Cancer, IF, heart disease - most major medical conditions - CAN impair lives. They take major emotional tolls on us that can affect our overall outlook on life. They can plummet us into depression, anxiety, and in some cases, taking lives. I suffered with anxiety for a year - and it robbed me of time with DS, DH and more - because of my RPL. Someone who had to battle cancer and survived also has to deal with depression and anxiety - will the cancer come back? Will I be the same person? etc.<BR/><BR/>So, in the end, there are more commonalities between cancer, IF and everything else. That can't be ignored.Tina / Anxious Changerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05455878557333244801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-27053486152267704422007-11-30T13:42:00.000-05:002007-11-30T13:42:00.000-05:00I just wanted to jump back in here to say that I a...I just wanted to jump back in here to say that I am appreciating this post even more as all the comments continue to come in. It has really made me think and explore my own feelings even more than I already had and I am actually working on a post right now to continue my thoughts on this -- but I'm thinking that it may take me a little while to finish. I appreciate what Kathy V wrote regarding my earlier comment and think she's correct -- my analogy is not complete. I came up with it months ago as I was thinking about the tendency to classify women going through infertility as "desperate" and thought it would be a way to connect to people in my own life and get them to understand more clearly how I was feeling and how that classification of "desperate" was hurtful and misplaced (even though I've used it to describe myself at times). Of course, I've never actually talked about this to anyone, just explored it in my own head. But the analogy of IF to an injury is not complete b/c an injury such as I described is usually treatable and cureable; whereas infertility is for most of us something we have to live with always. And as has been pointed out, it can also sometimes be life-threatening. I should know this, having had 2 ectopic pregnancies, but it's something I tend to push aside and not think about. It's only when I get the rare reaction of "how scary, you could have died" that I remember again how scary it was/is. I'm appreciating this post and the comments because not only have they got me thinking but also because of how nice and validating it is to read other people reacting the same way that I am. So thanks Melissa for starting such a good conversation!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-12007792512521309632007-11-30T13:03:00.000-05:002007-11-30T13:03:00.000-05:00Ditto that!Ditto that!Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07923049494756911105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-38999168180403201832007-11-30T12:59:00.000-05:002007-11-30T12:59:00.000-05:00I didn't read the comments. Grateful that I didn'...I didn't read the comments. Grateful that I didn't and morbidly intrigued now to do so. But for the sake of my blood pressure - well I shouldn't.<BR/><BR/>Everything you said, BRAVO! It is absolutely true that we are completely and totally slighted. <BR/><BR/>And, in some cases, you can die from undiagnosed infertility issues! Err...ignorance and insentivity are a dangerous combination.Esperanzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14841585672805438897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-65391743795738941602007-11-30T12:43:00.000-05:002007-11-30T12:43:00.000-05:00BRAVO!!!!! Everything that went through my mind a...BRAVO!!!!! Everything that went through my mind as I read your post has pretty much been posted already, but I wanted to say thanks for writing this. We are pursuing adoption, for a number of reasons, and we are contining to try to get pregnant. The adoption will take place whether or not I get and stay pregnant, and if that happens we'll be thrilled to have 3children in our family. Nevertheless, the comments about adoption and what's "meant to be" make me so angry. As others have stated, why is it the IF community's responsibility to care for children who need a home. Why are we selfish for wanting to get pregnant, but all my friends and relatives who have 3 biological children aren't? And, I don't even want to discuss the "it's meant to be comments" because I know I'll end up saying something nasty that I'll regret. Oh, see I got all riled up thinking about this. Thanks for saying it all so well -- as usual.Mindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137863271039042064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-50162220931013812472007-11-30T11:54:00.000-05:002007-11-30T11:54:00.000-05:00THANK YOU!! for this--perfectly said. I am constan...THANK YOU!! for this--perfectly said. I am constantly telling people that adoption is not a "cure" for infertility, and I get a weird, blank stare in return. Adoption is BEAUTIFUL and I am SO GRATEFUL for the son I have as a result of adoption, but it doesn't "fix" my very real medical condition that is INFERTILITY. I am still infertile! And my friends don't understand why I want more children, and why I want to pursue fertility treatments. I am constantly met with an attitude that suggests, you GOT a baby--so just be happy now. This, from fertile people who can get pregnant, and have as many children as they like, whenever they like. OR, they can choose not to have more children. But they HAVE THE CHOICE! <BR/><BR/>Okay, I need to calm down. This is a topic that really gets me going!! Thank you so much for your post.Frenchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07549739192754072138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-92220981021016095862007-11-30T10:57:00.000-05:002007-11-30T10:57:00.000-05:00Mel... Thank you. I am so glad that you wrote wha...Mel... Thank you. I am so glad that you wrote what you did, in a way that explains IF pain so eloquently. <BR/><BR/>I made the mistake of reading the comments on the article and it made my blood boil. The ignorance that floats around about infertiles and adoption is astounding. Would we look at an organ donor recipient and tell them the world is over populated, so their disease is natural selection? Never! <BR/><BR/>I know how hard it is to adopt. My parents had three failed adoptions before they got me, and that was in the 1970's. The process has only gotten worse since then.<BR/><BR/>I have an idea. Those who want us all to adopt... Let those people pay for all the knocked up teenagers on government assistance out of their own pockets (after taxes). Maybe once they see that glorifying their ability to keep their child is draining their monitary resources, they will fight for adoption reform. Better yet, how about they tell the foster care system to stop giving crack babies back, revoke their parental rights, and make adoption much cheaper, less heartbreaking, and less stringent?<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, we live in reality and not Utopia.Tammyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17599069988612635252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-38853162967801629632007-11-30T10:48:00.000-05:002007-11-30T10:48:00.000-05:00Bravo :)Bravo :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-50815839808142780072007-11-30T10:11:00.000-05:002007-11-30T10:11:00.000-05:00I have read both articles. I never really thought...I have read both articles. I never really thought about IF before it happened to me. I would have to agree that most people just don't know the impact of what they are saying. Most fertile people probably don't think about the adoption process either because they have children. As far as comparing it to cancer, infertility feels like a cancer. You worry about it, you schedule treatments, and it comsumes your life. I think most people outside of our world see it as something that would be more like the injury that harderthanwethought wrote about. Fertiles have just not taken a walk in our shoes. <BR/><BR/>Well written blog post. -KathyKathy Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15658449843683175580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-1920922326643136892007-11-30T10:08:00.000-05:002007-11-30T10:08:00.000-05:00Well done. You again (like always) summed up perfe...Well done. You again (like always) summed up perfectly how I feel.<BR/><BR/>Ever since I was a child, all I've ever wanted to be was a mother. I've never had great ambitions for any career, except to be a stay at home mom. Many people think I'm pathetic, some think I'm crazy. But I don't care. It's what I want.<BR/><BR/>That said, the fact that I'm infertile, makes it all so hard. It's as if, I am that chef with tongue cancer. All I want, is to be able to do my job.<BR/><BR/>XOXOMariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17786525217385383129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-6524153415083291002007-11-30T09:53:00.000-05:002007-11-30T09:53:00.000-05:00Very nice post.And, to those who think people aren...Very nice post.<BR/><BR/>And, to those who think people aren't asses, sorry, your wrong. They do tell cancer patients "it's God's will." I've seen and heard it. (Burns my britches, too.)<BR/><BR/>Of course, they usually save the brunt of the "God's will," or "Meant to be," for the survivors at the funeral.<BR/><BR/>The tongue cancer is something that people are not going to understand on so many levels, I feel for this man. He has entered a world that few people have to deal with - a world where you are no longer part of the social order. Food related disease that affect your ability to actually eat are considered the most socially isolating diseases of all in the psychiatric community.<BR/><BR/>Pax,<BR/><BR/>MLOMLOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01779450983499873776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-39896098116902484762007-11-30T09:27:00.000-05:002007-11-30T09:27:00.000-05:00I wonder which side of the fence you fall on if yo...<I>I wonder which side of the fence you fall on if you're treating infertility directly stemming from cancer.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, that's me all over. My infertility was a direct result of the chemo and radiation protocols chosen to cure my childhood cancer. It was a deliberate choice by doctors who did the best they could with what they had at the time. Does that stop me from being bitter and angry. Hardly.<BR/><BR/>The side of the fence that I fall on is that infertility is a medical condition. Just as cancer is a medical condition. Just as the heart disease and lung defects that will most likely face me (and most other survivors of hodgkins)as a result of the chemo will be medical conditions. <BR/><BR/>Fantastic post, Mel. Your analogies are dead-on and your questions are right on target. <BR/><BR/>Funny how when I was a "cancer kid" I was smothered in support and encouragement and constantly praised for "being so brave." I am hardly finding that outpouring now.mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07830332489753742950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-24981124807572483182007-11-30T08:24:00.000-05:002007-11-30T08:24:00.000-05:00Marvelously put, Mel.And Mazel tov on your Canadia...Marvelously put, Mel.<BR/>And Mazel tov on your Canadian debut. My Canadian heart has a big space reserved for you.<BR/>As for the person who so off-handedly commented that nature has other plans for us infertiles: I couldn't agree more. Apparently nature planned for me to shoot up nightly, swallow inumerable pills and lie with my legs up in the air in order for the doc to fill my uterus with my partner's sperm. Indeed, nature obviously intended for me to meet its "friend" science.ms. chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369055212101853503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-66896224500226295932007-11-30T07:57:00.000-05:002007-11-30T07:57:00.000-05:00This topic that you wrote about is my biggest anno...This topic that you wrote about is my biggest annoyance of the IF/Adoption world. Why are infertiles supposed to adopt the children of the world? Why are we the selfish ones? Just total crap, and you captured my frustration so well.LJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08398924875071245573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30259745.post-5599591598558763532007-11-30T05:07:00.000-05:002007-11-30T05:07:00.000-05:00Well said!Well said!Carohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08210823139583056706noreply@blogger.com